The continued ghettoising of the EPL?
By: Rob | March 5th, 2008When talking about this season’s champions league, and who he’d like to get in the next round (assuming his Real Madrid side overcome Roma) world cup holder Fabio Cannavaro has said the side he’s wouldn’t want to get are the Italian sides and Barca Considering then, that its pretty concievable that there will be 4 English teams in the Quater-Finals of the Champions League, and the amount of Italian teams could be anywhere between 0 and 2, why isn’t he bothered about the threat of the Premier League? Especially when everyone in this country (England) seems convinced that the EPL is finally the best league in the world. So a little history, and a musing on why this might be.
Back in the 80s, Liverpool dominated both England and Europe. Despite only being born in ‘86, I know this because Liverpool fans mention it all the time. However after they dramtically lost in the last minute in the best ending to a season in history, Liverpool fell by the wayside, and the English Division One as it was back then, at the turn of the 1990s was in limbo. The quality of players and football wasn’t really that grand, and Serie A became the biggest, most important league in the world - they had the best players and the best teams. The 90s grew on, and as a child, my attention was split between the newly invigorated (by Rupert Murdoch’s millions) Premiership and the exotic looking Serie A, where after USA 94 (and England’s absence) most of my favourite players played.
With the influx of players from abroad in the Premier League around the mid 1990s (from dreadlocked dutch to engigmatic frenchmen) the Prem got exciting again - after Euro 96 the big players from the tournment, Jordi Cruyff, Karel Poborsky et al all seemed to want to come play in the premiership. Aged legends like Jurgan Kilngsman came over for a couple of seasons. But out in mainland Europe the Prem still wasn’t respected.
An English side hadn’t won the Champions League in a long time, and since the conversion from European Cup to Champions League an English side hadn’t really got anywhere. Think, when Blackburn Rovers were the best side in England, the got nowhere in Europe. In 1999 it all seemed to change when Manchester United finnally won that elusive trophy in spectacular fashion. But with the rise of Galacticos culture in Spain, all the real big players wanted to play in Madrid. Suddenly it was obvious we had sort of been kidding ourselves - the best players in the world were Zidane, Raul, Roberto Carlos, Figo, Casillias. Even the one we had who could compete, Beckham, went over and joined the party.
The last few years though, Italy has fallen, unfortunatly the whole Match-Fixing thing isn’t going to away in the minds of supporters for a long time yet. They have the worlds best player, and yet, Serie A is still reeling. I have alot of love for Italy and its with a heavy heart I say that, even with a world cup win, its gonna stick in the mind of many.
The last couple of years, the Prem seems to have taken over as Europe’s number one league. In 2005 Liverpool managed to relive some glory days in a ridculous comeback against Milan. Chelsea are buying world class players left right and centre. Man United, in Rooney and Ronaldo have two of the best young players in world. Arsenal have alot of the others, including Cesc. In last years Champions League semi finals, 3 of the teams came from England. This year we could well face a situation, where there is only one spanish, and one italian side in the Round of 8, facing up against 4 English sides all capable of winning it.
And yet the English sides still don’t appear to be getting the kind of respect you might expect. Canna, isn’t the only one, but he’s quite a notable one as a World Cup winning captain. Maybe its just because he’s played in Italy so knows how good the players are. But when are players going to forget the 90s, or the early 00s and look at world football as it is, now? Because the Prem is looking pretty dominent in Europe, and should be feared.
Category: Champions League
Tags: Baggio, Cannavaro, Cantona, Cesc Fabragas, Champions League, Maldini, Premier League, Serie A, TottiSubscribe
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I’m apparently only a year older than you, rob, and I’m willing to bet that we probably both remember slagging off Seria A as kids all the while knowing they were the best…ah, the good ol’ days (God I miss the old Football Italia). I suppose they’re doing now what we did as kids…
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United States
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Indeed, much as I like the fact that Italian football is back from crap satalitte TV, C5’s coverage isn’t the same as having old Jimmy Richardson making awful puns (favourite: Like a man who works in a coupon factory, he’s got his work cut out for him) sat in Piazza’s talking football.
And of course we had to say the Prem was better than Serie A to our mates! But still dreamt of seeing the likes of Baggio in England.
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United Kingdom -
You obviously put a lot of effort in this post, but you seem to have overlooked a very important factor the Heysel ban. You are too young to remember it personally obviously, but you can not understand late 80s european football and why english teams disappeared from the scenario without knowing of it.
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“They have the worlds best player, and yet, Serie A is still reeling. I have alot of love for Italy and its with a heavy heart I say that, even with a world cup win, its gonna stick in the mind of many.”
Right, to whom are you referring to here? I can’t possibly imagine it’s Kaka, given his, to be frank, terrible performance in both legs against Arsenal. Maybe Totti? Bit past it surely? Um… Buffon? Surely past his best as well? Confusing.
Heard of someone called Cristiano Ronaldo?
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United Kingdom -
what the guy who has been ineffectual in any game against a decent side. Sorry but messi at the moment is the best player in the world, kaka is only going shit because he cant really be a one man army.
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Australia -
Well.. Messi’s certainly not because he just did his hamstring.
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United Kingdom -
BC —-> Yeah I’m aware of Heysel, but like you say, a bit too young to appriciate the magnitude of it. I was going to mention it, but sort of felt it might be a bit disrespectful as its not something I’m overly knowledgeable about. It has to be said though, when you think about the quality of players in England around 1990 it just doesn’t compete with the players on the continent.
—-> Everyone else. I did mean Kaka’, i was gonna link to somewhere where he won world footballer of the year or whatever, but assumed anyone would get it. He hasn’t be as good form wise this season as Ronaldo or Messi, but regardless he is the last player to be recognised as the best in the world, and if a player is voted best in the world you think that it would give the country he plays in a little respect (esp after a world cup win, and that champions league) but it shows the power of the Match Fixing scandal, which was my larger point.
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United Kingdom -
What is disrepectful about mentioning a 5 year ban as an effect on “dominance”? It happened. It´s important to understand the history and context. It´s worthy of being researched a bit. I am no expert on it, but it´s obvious it certainly affected the balance of european football leagues. It might be related to Italy´s rise to prominence as the most desirable, respected league in the late 80s, early 90s. The ban on english clubs on european competitions might also be related to why during that period you could find a lot more english players in activity on the continent, and perhaps related, maybe the best results in competitions for England football. And as an anecdote, some europeans a bit older than you probably have no childhood memory of english clubs playing in european competitions at their impressionable ages,might have an effect on what clubs they love or support. I am always a bit surprised if there are claims an italian or spanish football player aged say 27 or 30 now always supported a big english club since childhood. Unlikely , the international football people followed at the time would have been the international cups and english teams would have had a hard time creating new fans at the time.
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When I said disrespectful, it was because in use of another forum, anytime someone mentions Heysel or anything of the like, it usually ends up in alot of people getting upset and just a giant slagging match.
But your point is absolutely spot on, It probably is a big reason why people (who are now players) of a certain age will not have the view of the Prem as the big league. What does this mean for Serie A now though? Do you think a certain generation of footballers are not going to have the respect for Serie A because when they were impressionable (ie, now) it doesn’t have the big reputation?
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United Kingdom -
I can sympathize with rob in fearing that he may inadvertently start a Heysel-related insult contest; but, really, it’s true that you can’t understand the state of English football with respect to our European cousins without it: Heysel (and then Hillsborough) had the biggest impact on the nature of English football since, probably, Munich. Even now, the English footballing system still hasn’t fully shaken them off: the poor state of our youth and coaching systems are the last remnants of that era.
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Rob, I can see why you would want to avoid discussion of the event itself, but I think avoiding it totally was a disservice to any readers. People reading your piece not knowing the history or just not relating events might belief english influence on the CL in the late 80s ended because of one goal or one season lost in the english league . A politician might choose to put it like that, but it is not true nor helpful to understand the history and present.
Players wanting to play in a league is not so much about thinking it was the best when they were a child, it is also about current results, and chances to play instead of being benched and of course salaries. Italy might be slagged off but plenty of impressionable children have seen Milan reach final after final lately, what they will think in the future, time will tell.
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Yes there were 3 English teams in the semi final last year, but the winning team was an Italian team.
Also, the best players DO NOT PLAY in the EPL.
Ask yourself this.
How many World Cup winners play in England?
Contrast that to Spain and Italy.
Stop being so blind and biased.
EPL hypes their players and clubs.
Ronaldo can’t do anything against decent teams. He plays well against Portsmouth and Derby.
But against quality like Cannavaro and Barzagli against Italy, he was nowhere, as usual and resorted to diving because he couldn’t get past anyone.
Messi is the best player in the world at the moment, and Cesc Fabregas perhaps had a claim at the beginning of the season.
Other than that, turn down the hype metre.
Rooney IS NOT one of the best young players in the world.
GIVE ME A BREAK.
Overhyped to the max.
Just like Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard, etc etc.
As for the idiot that said Buffon is past his best… LMFAO!!!
Do you ever see him play?
Buffon will go down as the best goalkeeper the game has ever seen, if he isn’t that already.
The guy is nothing short of a demi-god goalkeeper. Ask anyone without tunnel vision who the best GK on this planet is, streets ahead of everyone else, and they will tell you.
Runner up to the Ballon d’OR in 06, a feat unheard of for a GK.
Singlehandedly getting JUVE into a CL spot this season.
Pulls off saves no other GK could
But, as usual, premiership commentators frequently call Cech the best GK in the world.
He is not fit to shine Buffon’s boots/gloves.
Stop hyping the English NT and the EPL.
You always set yourselves up for a big fall and a healthy serving of humble pie.
I’ll give it to you this season.
4 teams in the CL QF’s.
But this is an outlier in statistical terms.
Wait till rejuvenated Juve and Milan come back.
EPL teams will get that usual losing feeling again.
And remember
For your 3 semi finalists last season, and the English press debating which ENGLISH team would win the CL, it was AC Milan
Only sing when you win.
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EPL is the place to be in. Italian football is coming out of the demons of corruption and violence. Spanish football is full of world’s best players but still consistently failing in Europe in past few seasons. Barca’s victory in 06 was exception. EPL is full of pace compared to others and thats what defines the beautiful game. Hence EPL is so popular.
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to BC and AK —> Thanks for your comments, and they have indeed been taken on board. I’m still pretty new to this and everything, so its something I’ll certainly keep in mind in the future.
Naeem —-> Yes an Italian side won it last year. But look, they’ve fallen by the wayside this term. And we’re looking at the distinct possibility of only Roma in the QFs. As for the World Cup winners thing, well yes, that was sort of what i was getting at. There aren’t that many because some of the really big names, like Cana, aren’t phased by the Prem. And it was a wondering as to why as much as anything. I think Ronaldo, form wise, is the best player in the world. Only plays against poor sides? What Lyon not good enough? 30 Goals in all competetions. Against anyone, that is class. As for Rooney not being one of the top young players - Man United have lost 4 games this season, and all 4 they were without Rooney. They are unbeated with him in the side. Speaks volumes.
Oh and I think Buffon is better than Cech. Cassilias is pretty handy as well. Buffon is number one though.
Its also probably worth pointing out actually, that I do get fed up with the self-serving EPL hype machine, and if you would have asked me 12 months ago, I’d have said that the Prem wasn’t the best league in the world. Fact is that I think it is now, by most measures.
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United Kingdom -
Despite the English top 4 doing very well in the Champions League a look at the UEFA cup over the past few years indicates that the EPL still isn’t the best in the world. Certainly the EPL is less competitive than Serie A and La Liga, perhaps even less competitive than the Bundesliga. And I remember an article from a few month ago in the times showing that less goals are scored in the EPL than Serie A these days, yet every English pundit seems to rant about how the pace is so quick and entertaining in England and how Italian teams don’t score goals. And is it no coincidence that the most entertaining English team is one that has only one Englishman in it, a French manager, and plays like no other team in the league. And how boring was the all English Liverpool-Chelsea tie in last years semi-final? The top 4 English teams may (Arsenal apart) grind out results in the CL, but I’d rather watch Zaragoza vs Getafe or Lazio vs Udinese than Middlesborough vs Portsmouth any day. Indeed I’d rather watch Barca vs Valencia of Milan vs Inter than Liverpool vs Chelsea anyday too, but that goes without saying surely?
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United Kingdom -
Last season, funnily enough, I was making the same point about depth all the way down the leagues being the key factor, and I do think its an interesting point.
But its not about competitiveness, in the EPL 4 teams could concievably win the leauge (not that Liverpool will mind you, but the have the side to) in Serie A, you can only really see Inter or Roma winning at the moment, Milan are in transition, and Juve still reeling. Fiora are good entertainment but not a Scudetto side yet. Simiarly in spain, its all Barca and Real.As for entertainment, well the prem does have its dull teams and games, like any league. But Man United’s free flowing attacking football is often a joy to watch, and as you conceed, Arsenal are wonderful on the eye. Chelsea are promising to start playing good football soong. Liverpool will always be long ball dullity as long as Gerrard is around.
I dunno. My point as much as anything in this blog was that the Prem wasn’t really getting respect from current players outside the prem, surely it should be a bit more feared, best league or not?
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United Kingdom -
Hey Sheps, please excuse me but are you out of your bloody mind. Totti past his best? Buffon. Clearly you do not watch any Italian football. Buffon is by far the best keeper in the world and it’s not even close. Totti, even after a devastating injury, remains one of the best in the world. You feel you are qualified to judge Kaka based on a few games in the CL? How can anyone here respect what you say when you make ignorant statements like these.
More EPL bias I think. British bias and arrogance in particular. But what would the British have to be arrogant about I would like to know. If the EPL has improved, it is soley because of the influx of foreign talent. Because, quite frankly, what the hell has England done in the past 40 years. Then look at what your FA does; they hire an Italian coach to teach your boys the game. Frankly, I don’t think Capello can pull it off. There are so few decent British players, that maybe you all can go they way of France by handing out passports to players on every continent to build a good team.
The EPL is not the best league in the world. Maybe third best behind Italy and Spain. But again, if it were not for some quality foreign players, the EPL would be no better than the Greek league.
Posted from
United States
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