Comments on: The continued ghettoising of the EPL? http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html News from the European Champions League Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:26:53 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Giovanni http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6745 Giovanni Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:57:37 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6745 Hey Sheps, please excuse me but are you out of your bloody mind. Totti past his best? Buffon. Clearly you do not watch any Italian football. Buffon is by far the best keeper in the world and it's not even close. Totti, even after a devastating injury, remains one of the best in the world. You feel you are qualified to judge Kaka based on a few games in the CL? How can anyone here respect what you say when you make ignorant statements like these. More EPL bias I think. British bias and arrogance in particular. But what would the British have to be arrogant about I would like to know. If the EPL has improved, it is soley because of the influx of foreign talent. Because, quite frankly, what the hell has England done in the past 40 years. Then look at what your FA does; they hire an Italian coach to teach your boys the game. Frankly, I don't think Capello can pull it off. There are so few decent British players, that maybe you all can go they way of France by handing out passports to players on every continent to build a good team. The EPL is not the best league in the world. Maybe third best behind Italy and Spain. But again, if it were not for some quality foreign players, the EPL would be no better than the Greek league. Hey Sheps, please excuse me but are you out of your bloody mind. Totti past his best? Buffon. Clearly you do not watch any Italian football. Buffon is by far the best keeper in the world and it’s not even close. Totti, even after a devastating injury, remains one of the best in the world. You feel you are qualified to judge Kaka based on a few games in the CL? How can anyone here respect what you say when you make ignorant statements like these.

More EPL bias I think. British bias and arrogance in particular. But what would the British have to be arrogant about I would like to know. If the EPL has improved, it is soley because of the influx of foreign talent. Because, quite frankly, what the hell has England done in the past 40 years. Then look at what your FA does; they hire an Italian coach to teach your boys the game. Frankly, I don’t think Capello can pull it off. There are so few decent British players, that maybe you all can go they way of France by handing out passports to players on every continent to build a good team.

The EPL is not the best league in the world. Maybe third best behind Italy and Spain. But again, if it were not for some quality foreign players, the EPL would be no better than the Greek league.

]]> By: Rob http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6366 Rob Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:33:45 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6366 Last season, funnily enough, I was making the same point about depth all the way down the leagues being the key factor, and I do think its an interesting point. But its not about competitiveness, in the EPL 4 teams could concievably win the leauge (not that Liverpool will mind you, but the have the side to) in Serie A, you can only really see Inter or Roma winning at the moment, Milan are in transition, and Juve still reeling. Fiora are good entertainment but not a Scudetto side yet. Simiarly in spain, its all Barca and Real. As for entertainment, well the prem does have its dull teams and games, like any league. But Man United's free flowing attacking football is often a joy to watch, and as you conceed, Arsenal are wonderful on the eye. Chelsea are promising to start playing good football soong. Liverpool will always be long ball dullity as long as Gerrard is around. I dunno. My point as much as anything in this blog was that the Prem wasn't really getting respect from current players outside the prem, surely it should be a bit more feared, best league or not? Last season, funnily enough, I was making the same point about depth all the way down the leagues being the key factor, and I do think its an interesting point.
But its not about competitiveness, in the EPL 4 teams could concievably win the leauge (not that Liverpool will mind you, but the have the side to) in Serie A, you can only really see Inter or Roma winning at the moment, Milan are in transition, and Juve still reeling. Fiora are good entertainment but not a Scudetto side yet. Simiarly in spain, its all Barca and Real.

As for entertainment, well the prem does have its dull teams and games, like any league. But Man United’s free flowing attacking football is often a joy to watch, and as you conceed, Arsenal are wonderful on the eye. Chelsea are promising to start playing good football soong. Liverpool will always be long ball dullity as long as Gerrard is around.

I dunno. My point as much as anything in this blog was that the Prem wasn’t really getting respect from current players outside the prem, surely it should be a bit more feared, best league or not?

]]> By: David Morris http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6361 David Morris Sun, 09 Mar 2008 14:03:36 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6361 Despite the English top 4 doing very well in the Champions League a look at the UEFA cup over the past few years indicates that the EPL still isn't the best in the world. Certainly the EPL is less competitive than Serie A and La Liga, perhaps even less competitive than the Bundesliga. And I remember an article from a few month ago in the times showing that less goals are scored in the EPL than Serie A these days, yet every English pundit seems to rant about how the pace is so quick and entertaining in England and how Italian teams don't score goals. And is it no coincidence that the most entertaining English team is one that has only one Englishman in it, a French manager, and plays like no other team in the league. And how boring was the all English Liverpool-Chelsea tie in last years semi-final? The top 4 English teams may (Arsenal apart) grind out results in the CL, but I'd rather watch Zaragoza vs Getafe or Lazio vs Udinese than Middlesborough vs Portsmouth any day. Indeed I'd rather watch Barca vs Valencia of Milan vs Inter than Liverpool vs Chelsea anyday too, but that goes without saying surely? Despite the English top 4 doing very well in the Champions League a look at the UEFA cup over the past few years indicates that the EPL still isn’t the best in the world. Certainly the EPL is less competitive than Serie A and La Liga, perhaps even less competitive than the Bundesliga. And I remember an article from a few month ago in the times showing that less goals are scored in the EPL than Serie A these days, yet every English pundit seems to rant about how the pace is so quick and entertaining in England and how Italian teams don’t score goals. And is it no coincidence that the most entertaining English team is one that has only one Englishman in it, a French manager, and plays like no other team in the league. And how boring was the all English Liverpool-Chelsea tie in last years semi-final? The top 4 English teams may (Arsenal apart) grind out results in the CL, but I’d rather watch Zaragoza vs Getafe or Lazio vs Udinese than Middlesborough vs Portsmouth any day. Indeed I’d rather watch Barca vs Valencia of Milan vs Inter than Liverpool vs Chelsea anyday too, but that goes without saying surely?

]]> By: Rob http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6309 Rob Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:49:22 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6309 to BC and AK ---> Thanks for your comments, and they have indeed been taken on board. I'm still pretty new to this and everything, so its something I'll certainly keep in mind in the future. Naeem ----> Yes an Italian side won it last year. But look, they've fallen by the wayside this term. And we're looking at the distinct possibility of only Roma in the QFs. As for the World Cup winners thing, well yes, that was sort of what i was getting at. There aren't that many because some of the really big names, like Cana, aren't phased by the Prem. And it was a wondering as to why as much as anything. I think Ronaldo, form wise, is the best player in the world. Only plays against poor sides? What Lyon not good enough? 30 Goals in all competetions. Against anyone, that is class. As for Rooney not being one of the top young players - Man United have lost 4 games this season, and all 4 they were without Rooney. They are unbeated with him in the side. Speaks volumes. Oh and I think Buffon is better than Cech. Cassilias is pretty handy as well. Buffon is number one though. Its also probably worth pointing out actually, that I do get fed up with the self-serving EPL hype machine, and if you would have asked me 12 months ago, I'd have said that the Prem wasn't the best league in the world. Fact is that I think it is now, by most measures. to BC and AK —> Thanks for your comments, and they have indeed been taken on board. I’m still pretty new to this and everything, so its something I’ll certainly keep in mind in the future.

Naeem —-> Yes an Italian side won it last year. But look, they’ve fallen by the wayside this term. And we’re looking at the distinct possibility of only Roma in the QFs. As for the World Cup winners thing, well yes, that was sort of what i was getting at. There aren’t that many because some of the really big names, like Cana, aren’t phased by the Prem. And it was a wondering as to why as much as anything. I think Ronaldo, form wise, is the best player in the world. Only plays against poor sides? What Lyon not good enough? 30 Goals in all competetions. Against anyone, that is class. As for Rooney not being one of the top young players – Man United have lost 4 games this season, and all 4 they were without Rooney. They are unbeated with him in the side. Speaks volumes.

Oh and I think Buffon is better than Cech. Cassilias is pretty handy as well. Buffon is number one though.

Its also probably worth pointing out actually, that I do get fed up with the self-serving EPL hype machine, and if you would have asked me 12 months ago, I’d have said that the Prem wasn’t the best league in the world. Fact is that I think it is now, by most measures.

]]> By: Adam http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6302 Adam Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:29:43 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6302 EPL is the place to be in. Italian football is coming out of the demons of corruption and violence. Spanish football is full of world's best players but still consistently failing in Europe in past few seasons. Barca's victory in 06 was exception. EPL is full of pace compared to others and thats what defines the beautiful game. Hence EPL is so popular. EPL is the place to be in. Italian football is coming out of the demons of corruption and violence. Spanish football is full of world’s best players but still consistently failing in Europe in past few seasons. Barca’s victory in 06 was exception. EPL is full of pace compared to others and thats what defines the beautiful game. Hence EPL is so popular.

]]> By: Naeem http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6298 Naeem Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:44:10 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6298 Yes there were 3 English teams in the semi final last year, but the winning team was an Italian team. Also, the best players DO NOT PLAY in the EPL. Ask yourself this. How many World Cup winners play in England? Contrast that to Spain and Italy. Stop being so blind and biased. EPL hypes their players and clubs. Ronaldo can't do anything against decent teams. He plays well against Portsmouth and Derby. But against quality like Cannavaro and Barzagli against Italy, he was nowhere, as usual and resorted to diving because he couldn't get past anyone. Messi is the best player in the world at the moment, and Cesc Fabregas perhaps had a claim at the beginning of the season. Other than that, turn down the hype metre. Rooney IS NOT one of the best young players in the world. GIVE ME A BREAK. Overhyped to the max. Just like Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard, etc etc. As for the idiot that said Buffon is past his best... LMFAO!!! Do you ever see him play? Buffon will go down as the best goalkeeper the game has ever seen, if he isn't that already. The guy is nothing short of a demi-god goalkeeper. Ask anyone without tunnel vision who the best GK on this planet is, streets ahead of everyone else, and they will tell you. Runner up to the Ballon d'OR in 06, a feat unheard of for a GK. Singlehandedly getting JUVE into a CL spot this season. Pulls off saves no other GK could But, as usual, premiership commentators frequently call Cech the best GK in the world. He is not fit to shine Buffon's boots/gloves. Stop hyping the English NT and the EPL. You always set yourselves up for a big fall and a healthy serving of humble pie. I'll give it to you this season. 4 teams in the CL QF's. But this is an outlier in statistical terms. Wait till rejuvenated Juve and Milan come back. EPL teams will get that usual losing feeling again. And remember For your 3 semi finalists last season, and the English press debating which ENGLISH team would win the CL, it was AC Milan Only sing when you win. Yes there were 3 English teams in the semi final last year, but the winning team was an Italian team.

Also, the best players DO NOT PLAY in the EPL.

Ask yourself this.

How many World Cup winners play in England?

Contrast that to Spain and Italy.

Stop being so blind and biased.

EPL hypes their players and clubs.

Ronaldo can’t do anything against decent teams. He plays well against Portsmouth and Derby.

But against quality like Cannavaro and Barzagli against Italy, he was nowhere, as usual and resorted to diving because he couldn’t get past anyone.

Messi is the best player in the world at the moment, and Cesc Fabregas perhaps had a claim at the beginning of the season.

Other than that, turn down the hype metre.

Rooney IS NOT one of the best young players in the world.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

Overhyped to the max.

Just like Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard, etc etc.

As for the idiot that said Buffon is past his best… LMFAO!!!

Do you ever see him play?

Buffon will go down as the best goalkeeper the game has ever seen, if he isn’t that already.

The guy is nothing short of a demi-god goalkeeper. Ask anyone without tunnel vision who the best GK on this planet is, streets ahead of everyone else, and they will tell you.

Runner up to the Ballon d’OR in 06, a feat unheard of for a GK.

Singlehandedly getting JUVE into a CL spot this season.

Pulls off saves no other GK could

But, as usual, premiership commentators frequently call Cech the best GK in the world.

He is not fit to shine Buffon’s boots/gloves.

Stop hyping the English NT and the EPL.

You always set yourselves up for a big fall and a healthy serving of humble pie.

I’ll give it to you this season.

4 teams in the CL QF’s.

But this is an outlier in statistical terms.

Wait till rejuvenated Juve and Milan come back.

EPL teams will get that usual losing feeling again.

And remember

For your 3 semi finalists last season, and the English press debating which ENGLISH team would win the CL, it was AC Milan

Only sing when you win.

]]> By: BC http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6296 BC Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:07:55 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6296 Rob, I can see why you would want to avoid discussion of the event itself, but I think avoiding it totally was a disservice to any readers. People reading your piece not knowing the history or just not relating events might belief english influence on the CL in the late 80s ended because of one goal or one season lost in the english league . A politician might choose to put it like that, but it is not true nor helpful to understand the history and present. Players wanting to play in a league is not so much about thinking it was the best when they were a child, it is also about current results, and chances to play instead of being benched and of course salaries. Italy might be slagged off but plenty of impressionable children have seen Milan reach final after final lately, what they will think in the future, time will tell. Rob, I can see why you would want to avoid discussion of the event itself, but I think avoiding it totally was a disservice to any readers. People reading your piece not knowing the history or just not relating events might belief english influence on the CL in the late 80s ended because of one goal or one season lost in the english league . A politician might choose to put it like that, but it is not true nor helpful to understand the history and present.

Players wanting to play in a league is not so much about thinking it was the best when they were a child, it is also about current results, and chances to play instead of being benched and of course salaries. Italy might be slagged off but plenty of impressionable children have seen Milan reach final after final lately, what they will think in the future, time will tell.

]]> By: Ak http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6295 Ak Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:33:33 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6295 I can sympathize with rob in fearing that he may inadvertently start a Heysel-related insult contest; but, really, it's true that you can't understand the state of English football with respect to our European cousins without it: Heysel (and then Hillsborough) had the biggest impact on the nature of English football since, probably, Munich. Even now, the English footballing system still hasn't fully shaken them off: the poor state of our youth and coaching systems are the last remnants of that era. I can sympathize with rob in fearing that he may inadvertently start a Heysel-related insult contest; but, really, it’s true that you can’t understand the state of English football with respect to our European cousins without it: Heysel (and then Hillsborough) had the biggest impact on the nature of English football since, probably, Munich. Even now, the English footballing system still hasn’t fully shaken them off: the poor state of our youth and coaching systems are the last remnants of that era.

]]> By: Rob http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6292 Rob Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:42:07 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6292 When I said disrespectful, it was because in use of another forum, anytime someone mentions Heysel or anything of the like, it usually ends up in alot of people getting upset and just a giant slagging match. But your point is absolutely spot on, It probably is a big reason why people (who are now players) of a certain age will not have the view of the Prem as the big league. What does this mean for Serie A now though? Do you think a certain generation of footballers are not going to have the respect for Serie A because when they were impressionable (ie, now) it doesn't have the big reputation? When I said disrespectful, it was because in use of another forum, anytime someone mentions Heysel or anything of the like, it usually ends up in alot of people getting upset and just a giant slagging match.

But your point is absolutely spot on, It probably is a big reason why people (who are now players) of a certain age will not have the view of the Prem as the big league. What does this mean for Serie A now though? Do you think a certain generation of footballers are not going to have the respect for Serie A because when they were impressionable (ie, now) it doesn’t have the big reputation?

]]> By: BC http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6289 BC Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:11:59 +0000 http://cl.theoffside.com/champions-league/the-continued-ghettoising-of-the-epl.html#comment-6289 What is disrepectful about mentioning a 5 year ban as an effect on "dominance"? It happened. It´s important to understand the history and context. It´s worthy of being researched a bit. I am no expert on it, but it´s obvious it certainly affected the balance of european football leagues. It might be related to Italy´s rise to prominence as the most desirable, respected league in the late 80s, early 90s. The ban on english clubs on european competitions might also be related to why during that period you could find a lot more english players in activity on the continent, and perhaps related, maybe the best results in competitions for England football. And as an anecdote, some europeans a bit older than you probably have no childhood memory of english clubs playing in european competitions at their impressionable ages,might have an effect on what clubs they love or support. I am always a bit surprised if there are claims an italian or spanish football player aged say 27 or 30 now always supported a big english club since childhood. Unlikely , the international football people followed at the time would have been the international cups and english teams would have had a hard time creating new fans at the time. What is disrepectful about mentioning a 5 year ban as an effect on “dominance”? It happened. It´s important to understand the history and context. It´s worthy of being researched a bit. I am no expert on it, but it´s obvious it certainly affected the balance of european football leagues. It might be related to Italy´s rise to prominence as the most desirable, respected league in the late 80s, early 90s. The ban on english clubs on european competitions might also be related to why during that period you could find a lot more english players in activity on the continent, and perhaps related, maybe the best results in competitions for England football. And as an anecdote, some europeans a bit older than you probably have no childhood memory of english clubs playing in european competitions at their impressionable ages,might have an effect on what clubs they love or support. I am always a bit surprised if there are claims an italian or spanish football player aged say 27 or 30 now always supported a big english club since childhood. Unlikely , the international football people followed at the time would have been the international cups and english teams would have had a hard time creating new fans at the time.

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