Comments on: The Ever-Controversial Ones #1, Frank Lampard

By: Rob

Rob — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:31:26 +0000

Thats just not true Jaymam. He was the star player in an incredibly talented West Ham side (Ferdinand, Carrick, Joe Cole) and was ever-present in the Chelsea side before Abromovich millions.

The point you should be making, is that the Chelsea side is built around him (cf Totti, Gerrard, Ronaldo etc) which highlights his strengths rather than weaknesses. Even this isn’t so true under Avram Grant who likes to have both Lampard and Gerrard supporting a solo striker. He’d be able to play in any side in the world – if they played to his strengths.

By: Jaymam

Jaymam — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:46:45 +0000

Where was he before Roman’s billions? Just an average footballer. The team make him look good. If he played in any other team apart from Chelsea he wouldn’t have a clue.

By: Adam

Adam — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:30:14 +0000

@Ak, Ish
The names you guys are mentioning have achieved something on international level. But in Lamprd’s case (or in any other English players case) that is big void which remains unfilled. May be this is what something hindering him to be “once in a decade” midfielder category.

@Rob,
Beckham (media or quality), Gerrard (only plays on European nights), Pipo, Ruud V Nistelrooy etc. There are too many of them.

By: Ak

Ak — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:42:42 +0000

I agree with ish: I’d put Lampard in the level below them, the “great players” level as opposed to the “once-in-a-generation” level. Rob, maybe you should, in order to reduce as much of the semantic ambiguity as possible, pick a list of clear world-class players, and ask is this-or-that person in the same level, but that’s easier said than done!

I was also going to suggest a few names, but I couldn’t think of ones that you already hadn’t picked (Gerrard, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Totti, Ferdinand, Beckham). Are Schmeichel, Maldini, Keane, Giggs, and Zidane givens?

By: Rob

Rob — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 13:31:28 +0000

It looks like The Definition of World Class would be a good future topic around these parts.

Seems like Lampard was a good opening choice as well, anyone got any shouts as to who they would like to see next? I have a couple of ideas but am open to suggestions.

By: ish

ish — Wed, 02 Apr 2008 04:00:22 +0000

@adam
im not seeing he isnt a top class player. He has amazing talents and he is amazing. I think the big problem with lampard is he doesnt have the press friendly game. I think he makes what he does look too simple. because of that no one sees his talents. Sometimes he pulls off some amazing shit, like a couple of his curling passes to drogba and the fa cup assist were beautiful. His goals are also quite beautiful as well.

Also imo opinion there are only like a hand ful of world class players. Players that have won everything, players that are seen with awe, pele , cruyff, maradona, di stefano, stoichkov, maldini, baresi etc. Players that are the template that all other players are compared too.

By: Ak

Ak — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 22:01:03 +0000

Adam, I really don’t know: I still think that, while he is very good at a lot of those things, he not really great at any of them…but then again, what do I know! I just have this gut feeling that there’s something lacking in his game that I haven’t properly identified. Maybe it’s just me: maybe my qualifications for “world class” are mythologically high! Let me just say that if he’s not world class, then he’s about as close as you can be to it.

By: Adam

Adam — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:12:52 +0000

^^
*assists

By: Adam

Adam — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 19:12:05 +0000

@ish,
He is wanted by all the top clubs across Europe. And he will always remembered as heartbeat of Chelsea’s success story.

@Ak,
To be world class you need pace, vision, movement, anticipation

Vision: Look at this season’s game against Man City at SB. Man City were flying high. Or his goal against Barca last season. People get blinded by his goals tally. But he happens to be guy with most assist at Chelsea. And those Assist are also in double figures. If Drogba became worldclass due to direct passing game of Chelsea then Lampard is feeder to his most of the goals. That settles the issue of Vision.

Movement: He is known for his late runs in box and thats why he scores so many goals. His movement in midfield is top class too. Hence whole team is generally built around him.

Anticipation: Same as above.

Touch: Stats dont lie when it comes to passing. And if you are talking about first touch then its also as good as any other midfielder.

Pace: Only grey area in my opinion. But Lampard’s game is built up like a playmaker from midfield at WHU. And now pure attacking midfielder at Chelsea. It doesnt hinder the team performances.

If you say that he is jack of all and master of none then you are wrong here. There are many unique things which he is master. Like late runs or long balls. He is phenomenal in these things.

By: Ak

Ak — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 02:18:03 +0000

I’d probably agree with you about whether being a “decathlete” was a good or bad thing, but I suppose it makes it harder for you to be played out of the game — unless you’re playing badly, of course!

Unless he proves us wrong any time soon, I’d have to agree that I can only really see him play that one role; in which case, in order to best utilize him, the team has to accommodate him.

But, having said all this, there’s this feeling that I’ve got that I’m not really satisfied with my own “conclusions”: there’s just something about Lampard that doesn’t seem right, something that I haven’t identified, like he’s missing something important that means we’ll always be arguing this question. Maybe it’s methodology, his approach to the game: where (I imagine) he sees a pass as necessary to achieve something, a great player would see it as something that must be done in its own right…perhaps?…I don’t know…